Lesson Transcript

Welcome to Inner Circle.
Hi everyone, I'm Peter.
And I'm Keijin.
So Keijin, last time we spoke about the three-step framework to mastering a language.
And today?
Today is kind of an interesting topic, talking about how personality relates to communication and language communication.
Okay, interesting. What kind of personality?
I mean, that's what we are going to talk in this lesson, right?
Yes, introvert versus extrovert.
Oh, that's an interesting topic.
So Keijin, are you an introvert or an extrovert?
Ah, that has a very long story.
Well, I have a question.
What is an introvert and extrovert?
Okay, let's start there.
Let's read the definitions that we were given for this particular talk session.
Okay, introvert is someone who recharges by being alone and likes quiet talk for activity.
Yes, and that would make an extrovert, someone who recharges by being around other people and loves socializing and group activities.
Okay, and this reminds me of something, MBTI.
Have you ever heard of it?
That would be the Meyer-Briggs something?
Yeah, like 16 personalities.
Yeah, what does the TI stand for? MB is Meyer-Briggs?
We can check online.
I can never remember that.
Maybe testing time.
So yeah, but that's a more detailed breakdown.
Yes, but the first letter, like I or E, that is about introvert and extrovert.
Yeah, so all things kind of, this is in kind of economic terms, or this is kind of a macro, an overall bucket, and then inside you can get more detailed into what kind of extrovert or introvert you are.
But on the macro level, the higher level, we have the introvert and extrovert.
And yes, as you asked, if I answer, it's very difficult.
I tried it when I was in university.
And when I entered this company, and during the COVID and after the COVID, and I always got different results.
So Kyejin, what you're saying is you can change, right?
Yeah, I think when I was in university, I had a different person, not exactly very, very different, but like maybe I acted a little differently.
And also I spoke Korean when I was in university.
And also when I came to this company, maybe my English wasn't, I wasn't very confident in speaking English, because it was my first time to speak English in this international environment.
So maybe it was a little different, something like that.
So interestingly, I changed like between introvert and extrovert, and mostly it's half and half.
So when I did the test in university, the examiner said my result is very interesting. All the thing is like half and half, almost like 48 versus 50, like almost half, all the aspects.
Okay, let's back up one second here.
So I agree too, people can change.
People are constantly evolving.
But maybe deep down, there's one you identify with a little bit more.
But actually the main point of this lesson is that you can change.
And I think Keijin had a very important point.
In a second language, maybe your skill will dictate a lot of how you kind of identify.
Because if you don't know a lot of words and you can't speak a lot and you can't communicate clearly or eloquently, you might be more of an introvert kind of keeping to yourself, more listening, and as you get better and better, you can shed one and become another, perhaps extrovert or vice versa.
Let's agree on two points.
One, that you can change.
But I do think fundamentally deep down, you're closer to one or the other, maybe.
Yeah, I have to think so.
I'm so by looking at the definition, I charge myself by being alone and doing some thoughtful activities.
So I'm more towards introvert.
Yeah.
Although I also have extroverted aspect, but yeah, close to.
Yeah, same here.
I actually prefer to be home alone reading a book.
What?
What? Really?
I thought you are worse extrovert.
No, I had to train myself.
Interesting. Wow.
Okay.
Yeah, when I go to a room full of people, it's not like my natural environment.
But you know, I've learned to program my brain to be like, okay, whoever speaks first wins.
Go speak.
Wow.
Okay.
So are you going to share some tips today?
Who is an introvert who is trained to be extrovert?
And I think it's kind of relevant too, because maybe we all start out in some ways as introverts, listening and absorbing or many people.
And you know, the better you get, the more knowledgeable you are, the more likely you are to be speak a lot on a topic or willing to help and share people and interact with people with the more things you know.
But yeah, I think there's some things we can talk about on how to kind of change because there's one thing I definitely believe and now we're talking about second language.
Extroverts probably learn a language faster.
Okay, so this introvert and extrovert is important for language learning, right?
I think when it comes to speaking.
Ah, I see. Not only areas, but speaking.
If you're able to create the situations, then it's a very powerful learning tool.
I don't know, something about being under pressure, saying the right thing or if you have a successful interaction, do you want to do it again?
Interesting. And yeah, as you just said, extrovert people tend to speak more to other people.
That means they have a lot of chances, chances to practice their language skills.
So do extroverts learn a language faster than introverts?
My guess would be speaking, I think, but overall, I don't know.
Like I said, I was an introvert and I did okay learning Japanese compared to some other people who were extroverts.
But Keijin, we actually have some research on this.
Oh, okay.
So let's take a look at the research because who learns faster, introvert, extrovert?
It's a bit of a straw man argument.
It kind of comes down to the individual and these main points that we'll go over.
These are the keys to really learning a language.
Okay, so what is the four points?
First is motivation.
So the more motivated you are, we learn.
Yeah, so I'm thinking for this and I think I can see arguments or things for each.
But let's go through the four and then we'll maybe compare how an introvert and extrovert some advantages they might have.
Okay, second one.
So first is motivation.
Next, we have learning strategies.
So this would be how you learn and what tools you use to learn.
So are you a visual learner?
Do you want to learn with visual materials?
Do you like audiobooks, podcasts, flashcards?
So these are kind of the strategies you have and maybe a clear example would be using handwritten flashcards versus spaced repetition flashcards.
Flashcards are smart flashcards that help you learn the terms you need faster than just the old-fashioned way.
And the third one is?
Exposure and practice.
So if speaker more regularly and exposed to ourselves to more language speaking environment, then we can learn faster.
Yeah, music, TV shows, videos, podcasts, video podcasts on YouTube, these type of things, right?
And then finally, age and cognitive factors.
Oh boy, this could get us into a little bit of trouble here, but in general, we often think younger learners learn faster because of their brain plasticity, right?
Nice.
I think though the problem with young learners is they may not be as, their brain is ready to learn, but they may not be as engaged or motivated into learning.
So it's, you know, it's a combination of these four points, right?
And also instead adults can learn faster by using their cognitive skills, right?
They already know a lot of things, they have experiences.
They have skills to draw on, they have tools that they understand how to use.
But it's again, it's a combination of motivation plus learning strategies plus exposure and practice.
And then finally, age and cognitive factors.
So extraversion and extraversion influence learning approaches and that's not all.
We have other factors that influence learning skills.
Yeah, let's take a look at these four a little bit closer.
I don't know, you said you went back and forth.
Motivation wise, were you more motivated?
I mean, tell us about when you were an introvert and extrovert learning a language.
Okay, so first, I think it depends on the language too.
Because when I started learning Japanese, I was more introvert.
And when I started learning French, I was, I feel I was more extrovert.
Because in Japanese, I know there are the manners matters a lot.
So I try to follow that.
And if I don't know the etiquettes or manners, I tend to be quiet.
But when I learned French and when I was in France, if I don't know, I rather ask first.
I don't know why I act differently, but it depends on the language.
My personality changes too.
Yeah, I think that's a very good point.
I look at it a little different.
So again, being an introvert deep down, this helped a lot with the reading and listening, right?
It's, I like to read, so I would read.
Although when I was studying Japanese or Chinese, you know, the kanji really slowed me down,
but still I was very patient.
But I really feel like an introvert can excel at these skills.
I would listen to people speak.
But then when my Japanese got better and I got more confident and I started to get friends,
then I kind of pushed myself to be more extroverted and more of an extrovert.
And that means trying to speak more, strategizing on how I could create situations to talk.
Going up to random people and asking, hey, how do you read this kanji?
Again, that's a little easier when you're immersed in the country,
but still there's always opportunities online now and many ways to practice speaking.
So do you mean that your language level also affects personality a little bit when you speak that language?
For me, I would say yes, because I think the better you get, then the more you can joke around,
the more culture you understand, you can understand what's funny.
I remember when I first started, I was trying to take these American jokes and they were correct in Japanese,
but the humor didn't translate.
So the meaning is translated literally, directly.
Yeah, as you said, culturally, they didn't understand why you're saying that.
So the comprehension, the timing, the words, what you say, these all add up.
And yeah, if you say a joke and people laugh, it gives you confidence.
If they look at you like, oh, yeah, I don't forget those, like when you're embarrassed, right?
So yeah, I do think that there are these elements to it.
And I know extroverted people who just their language grammatically and vocabulary wise is not very high,
but they're using their language and they're learning, speaking again, talking about speaking.
They're progressing and speaking so fast because they're just speaking.
True, very interesting.
So can we also go over the strengths and weaknesses of both sides?
I think you already said some of them, but I want to know more.
Okay, let's go to that.
So extrovert, as you said, they might not have a strong vocabulary or grammar skills,
but they have strong advantage of speaking.
And also, they don't mind making mistakes usually, right?
I think they like talking.
So I think it depends on the person.
But still, I find them like enjoying making mistakes sometimes and they just laugh.
I don't know if they enjoy it, but let's say they're immune to it.
It doesn't slow them down.
In some cases, not everyone.
The downside is they cannot study alone.
And we need to study alone sometimes, like remembering the vocabulary or like understanding the grammar.
I can see if that's like extreme extrovert, but I imagine lots of extroverts can study by themselves.
Okay, then how about introvert?
What's their strength?
I think we just touched on that, the reading, the writing.
I'll give you a good example.
Recently, I was in Korea and I saw a woman.
I was with my sons and my sons speak Chinese.
And we saw a woman studying Chinese and in a coffee shop by herself.
So now I had my extrovert hat on.
And so I said to her, the Chinese, oh, you're studying Chinese.
And she was kind of like shocked a bit.
And she just nodded.
And I asked her one more question and she nodded.
So it was clear she didn't want to talk to me.
She's an introvert.
And I think she studied grammar and vocabulary very hard and she's maybe not ready to speak Chinese yet.
I think so, you know, I think they're possible.
You know, I think she leans more introvert.
And yeah, so that was kind of an interesting thing.
Yeah, interesting.
Yeah, and also maybe the introvert people tend to avoid speaking when they are not ready.
That's what I did.
It wasn't that I avoided it.
It's just that I'm not shy.
I just didn't have the practice and the muscle memory.
I will say this, Keiji, though.
I think introverts now have a secret weapon.
What is that?
Wait, I know it.
AI.
Yeah, so go on.
You got it.
So please continue.
So for example, we have a role play, right?
So it's not a real human.
It's just an AI that helps language learners.
So even if they make a mistake, they don't have to feel embarrassed, shy.
They just need to keep practicing.
So I can prep them.
Maybe to sum up, introverts might have an advantage with reading and listening.
And introverts might have an advantage with speaking and maybe writing because they're
texting people or they're sending audio messages these days.
And introverts have a bit of a secret weapon with AI.
However, I do believe if you really want to get to that next level, you do need to train
yourself to be an extrovert so that you can actually interact with people in the language.
If they really want to speak the language.
I mean, when we do the survey, a lot of people say I want to speak the language.
It's not like I want to read the books.
I want to listen to the audio.
Other than that, a lot of people say I want to speak the language.
That means they have to turn into an extrovert, right?
Yeah.
So Keiji, how do you train yourself to be an extrovert?
Because I do believe that it helps with your language learning.
And not even language learning in life.
Like, you know, it's like a salesperson.
Some people cannot not do sales.
Some people can train themselves to do sales.
But elevator to, oh man, nice weather or hey, wow.
That elevator pitch takes a certain threshold.
Yeah.
Okay.
Practice.
You got to get past a certain threshold, right?
You can practice as much as you want.
But actually apply it in real life.
That's the word I was looking for.
The application in real life.
Because you practice at home in front of a mirror.
Hey, nice weather.
Hey, I don't know.
But actually going and saying it.
There's something there.
Yeah, actually for me, of course, I have many ways.
But one of them is, well, practice.
So I made some set of phrases that I can say confidently.
Like, for example, when I speak the language, sorry, what was that?
Or sorry, could you say that one more time?
Like, or the weather talk.
Like, it's something that we can do.
So I made several set of the conversations that I can speak confidently.
And well, when I have to speak, I use the topics that I can talk about.
Okay, Keiji, I'm going to push back a bit.
Because this is like public speaking.
You can practice, practice, practice.
But getting out there in the real life situation.
How do you get over that?
Or how do you initiate that?
I start with a comfortable environment.
Maybe I, so for example, like for French, how I get more extrovert is thanks to my friends.
So at first.
That's cheating.
Yes, well, I have a friend.
So compared to other languages, I think I got extrovert more easily.
Thanks to them, because I practiced with native speakers from the beginning.
So how about yourself?
You learned many languages and you said you trained yourself to become an extrovert.
Yeah.
How did you do that?
It's a little similar to you.
Friends are a good stepping stone.
But yeah, talking to random people.
That's the true test of that ability to someone you don't know.
That's a big milestone in, I would say, in one's native language.
Getting comfortable speaking to random people.
That might sound a little strange.
And then even in the target language.
So walking up to someone and asking for the time or making a comment on someone's food.
Excuse me, what are you eating?
Oh, wait, what?
They're like, yeah, that looks really good.
So similar to you, you practice these.
But that application in real life.
So practicing in your own language is the big first step.
Getting comfortable and becoming extrovert to some degree.
You don't have to walk down the street high fiving people and dancing on the stairs.
But building up and understanding what an extrovert is in your own native language
can then help you get over that block in your target language.
Train myself to be an extrovert.
And man, sometimes it fails miserably.
And the human brain is wired so that we don't ever forget the failures.
I could talk to 10 people.
Everyone's happy, happy.
And if one guy or one person is not nice, I'll remember that forever.
Training yourself to remember the good interactions, the good comment is another important thing.
So before talking to native speakers, also, I practice a lot with the teachers too.
That made me more confident because they always give me compliments like,
oh, Keijin, you did a great job.
You improved.
Then I feel like, oh, maybe I can now speak to native speakers.
Yeah.
So do you have any lines?
So you mentioned the weather, right?
Becoming an extrovert.
Do you have any lines that you use in, let's say, Japanese in the target language
that you use to create conversations?
Yeah, it's cold today, right?
So weather is a good topic starter.
Weather is, I think, one of the best topics.
And the other topic is food.
Almost, not almost, I think everyone likes food.
Yeah, much easier when you're in these type of environments to talk about.
If there's something visual around you, that's why weather is easy, right?
Because you can look at the common things like, wow, it's beautiful weather.
And everyone, you're looking at the same thing.
So food is similar in another way.
Yeah.
Can I have what they're having or that looks very good or wow, this is so good?
Asking for directions is nice, too, because people like to help.
True.
I used to use that in the States, like many, many years ago when I learned English.
But I don't use it anymore.
I have Google Maps.
But I still ask because in the building, it's sometimes I know where is the building.
But inside the building, I sometimes get lost and I ask people.
It's not as often as before.
Yeah, so what's the time?
Check your own phone.
Yes, exactly.
It's weird.
Like what's the time?
Why are you asking?
Time and direction.
Yeah, with the technology, these become hard topics.
But when I learned English, I used them.
That's so funny.
So we have to update it.
Yeah, update.
Instead, yeah, maybe you can talk about Instagram, TikTok.
No, no, we have to do something like show the Google reviews.
Like, is this restaurant really good?
Oh, I see.
Yeah, sure.
Yeah.
How's that restaurant?
Yes, exactly.
Or what to get at this restaurant.
Yeah, I haven't tried that.
But I will, especially in France.
That will be interesting.
Yeah, it's quite interesting.
But, you know, in some ways, it makes it easier too because if you call an Uber in France or Paris,
I don't know if there are other cities, you can talk to the Uber driver, right?
So like you can call a situation to you.
Oh, interesting.
I see.
I never tried that.
But right.
Yeah, if there's any problem, you can make a phone call and say, hey, I'm here.
And where are you?
No, no, when you get in the Uber car.
Oh, well, I do that.
I tried to do that.
I thought, oh, it's a great opportunity.
What do you say?
Yeah, I talk about the weather first.
I have a set phrases like weather.
And then I said, oh, is it usually crowded to go there?
How long does it take?
I know how long it takes because Uber usually shows, but I still try to have a small conversation with them.
And oh, he said it takes like 20 minutes.
Is it normal or like is it crowded today?
Like when I was in France, I said, oh, I love France.
What's your favorite like French food?
Can you recommend me?
Yeah, see, this is good.
Yeah, the food is good.
Yeah, I always say I just had the people love also absolutes.
I just had the best croissant.
They're like, where did you then when you say best people, it triggers them to like, all right, where'd you go?
And I tell them and guess what?
My place is never the best because they have their own best.
So yeah, some of these techniques.
But again, this is not such a simple thing to do your first time.
And sometimes people don't want to talk or sometimes someone will talk back to you in English.
What do you do when that happens?
Yeah, in your case, Korean.
Yeah, I mean, well, let's talk about France then.
When I take over, I always think it's my French lesson.
So I tried to speak French, but maybe my French pronunciation wasn't perfect.
And some people answered me back in English, even though I spoke French.
What do you do?
I keep speaking French.
I never spoke English.
This is an extrovert.
This is yeah.
I never spoke English in France.
Wow.
Yeah, this is a great tip from Keijin too.
So, you know, becoming an extrovert is not simply just talking in a language.
You get resistance sometimes push back.
So a lot of it comes down to maybe motivation or how hard how bad do you want it?
Right?
That's motivation.
So Keijin, that's tough.
You you you go straight through.
I will speak French and I'm going to speak French.
You just keep going, right?
Yeah, when I was in France, I spoke zero English.
It was great.
But of course, I needed a big confidence.
So, you know, this is the key to building up.
You don't have to be dancing down the street wearing, you know, flashy jackets to be 100% extrovert.
But pushing slightly into that extrovert territory, I think is very, very important.
And also when it comes to speaking or output.
And the reason why I was scared of speaking French native speaker at first is I was making I was afraid of making mistakes.
But once I think it's OK, I'm a foreigner.
I'm just a learner.
I will make a mistake.
Then that makes me a little more comfortable.
So I think it's important to think it's OK to make a mistake.
Yeah. So mistakes are OK.
Try to create situations where you're speaking again.
Now you can do you can talk with AI and even speaking out loud to yourself is moving towards a bit of an extrovert in a way.
That's a little bit of a milestone.
I do that a lot.
I actually speak a lot in another language when I learn.
OK, now I brush my teeth.
I'm going to take this towel.
OK, I do this. I do this.
I speak a lot.
So that works.
It's it's a great technique.
And now with AI, you can actually haven't found the tool yet.
We can check that.
But that's coming.
So yes, we have these things to help push you there.
Create creating opportunities, practicing little by little to speak more with other people and make mistakes is OK, as you just said.
Yeah, it's totally fine.
If you are very, very introvert, I think the Premium Plus My Teacher Messenger app would help, too.
So it has a voice recording tool so you can record again and again until you are happy with that and send it to teacher.
And the teacher will give you feedback.
And again, if you're doing audio only, then you can build up to video.
And again, it's a step by step process.
Building your confidence along the way is the key.
And remember, your confidence is going to get knocked back.
But as Keijin, you know, my pronunciation wasn't good enough.
They're speaking English.
I'll keep going.
It's a big step.
Yeah, I don't know why I do that.
But one thing that I was thinking is, you know, I'm working for a company.
It's not easy to take such a long holiday.
That's why maybe it might be my last chance in my life.
I will be speaking French only.
Yeah, it was a big motivation.
So Keijin, we spoke a lot about this introvert kind of moving to an extrovert.
But what about going the other way?
Because I think there's a lot of value in an introvert's way of learning.
And again, we're not talking on the absolutes 100%, just categories, you know.
So if you prefer to speak more than read, then it slightly puts you on the extrovert if you're able to do it.
But what about, you know, someone who wants to maybe...
Actually, I have my personal advice.
Do you know about Webtoon?
No.
Oh, so it's an application where you can read the mobile cartoon.
And it's actually a Korean company.
Is it free?
It is free.
It is free.
It's Webtoon.
And they translate the Webtoon, I mean the cartoon, to many different languages.
I don't know how many languages they are translating to.
But those are translating to Japanese, French, English, Spanish for sure.
I'm sure there are other languages.
So, you know, everyone, I mean many, many people likes reading short cartoons.
It takes just three minutes, five minutes that they read it in during their break time.
So when I learn French, I also use this sometimes, and Japanese too.
So I read the cartoon in Korean first, so I know all the story.
But then I change the language to Japanese or French, and I read it again.
Yeah, sounds good.
I will start to use this too.
Yeah, Korean Webtoon is so popular.
I'm so promoting Korea, representative of Korea.
But yeah, Korean Webtoons are really popular and many of them become the Korean dramas and movies.
Please try that.
Yeah, and finding something you like can really, really help.
So, you know, if you like to talk a lot, finding something you like to read
or finding something that you like to watch, that can really help too.
But I think, you know, the interesting thing is for you and for both of us,
I think we went from introverts to extroverts.
So I think we have a lot more to talk about on that subject.
Okay, that was very interesting.
Do you have any final thoughts for our members today?
Yeah, whatever you identify as an introvert or an extrovert,
start in your native language.
Kind of think about what you are in your native language
and then apply some of the things we spoke about to your native language.
How you can identify as an introvert,
how you can move a little more to the extrovert side of things
by maybe trying some of the things we said today.
Practice in front of a mirror.
Practice talking out loud.
Try to speak with people that you may not normally speak with.
Try to make the conversation last a bit longer.
So starting in your native language to understand the tools,
I think is the first step.
That's great.
Now you have to apply it to your target language.
Yes.
Well, you might need some more confidence in doing this,
but I'm sure as Peter and I overcome our introvert personality,
our viewers can also do that.
So what you learned in your native language,
take that and try to apply it in your target language.
Now at the same time, this is probably very important.
You need to simultaneously practice.
I think that's very important advice here.
Yeah, without practice, more difficult.
If you practice, it becomes easier and easier.
And if we go back to Keijin's example,
Keijin first identifies the phrases.
She wants to talk about the weather.
We'll take that.
She practices different weather phrases.
Then she repeats them out loud.
Then she brings them to her teacher.
Maybe she does on a premium plus,
mailing the audio clip, sending the video clip, texting.
Practice, practice.
Then she tries with her friends.
And then finally...
With native speakers.
Rando's on the street, right?
Yeah, not random people.
But to me, like Hoover people or the people who...
So when I'm with friends,
sometimes there are some French people talking to us first.
Then I'm like, okay, they seem positive to us.
Then I become brave and talk to them.
Yeah, I think random people on the streets like that.
Cool, 100% extrovert, right?
I'll try this someday in the future.
So I think that's a small little roadmap of how you can take what we spoke about in this lesson
and apply it in real life.
And that practice component is really key.
And the site has lots of lessons you can use to learn.
Then you can practice with a premium plus teacher to get the first part of that funnel going, the first part of that journey started.
Or even they can practice with group class teachers, group class students, or private teachers too.
Okay, well, that will do it for this lesson.
So for everyone watching this, let us know if you feel more introverted or extroverted in your target language.
Or if you have a goal to move one way or the other.
And if you have anything to share, email us at inner.circle at innovativelanguage.com.
And stay tuned for the next Inner Circle.
Bye everyone.
Bye.

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